The Problem with Demands for Negotiations

Firestone Discussion
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I believe that it is evident that hostage situations or just demands, in general, have severely gotten blunt over a certain amount of time, both for law enforcement and the criminal side. I am pretty sure this has been a prevalent issue within the community but has not been addressed since nobody wants to have it be addressed since people have adapted to it but has negative effects on the game. There have been multiple instances of people voicing their agreement that these FRP demands hurt the game to a certain extent as well. Of course, not all FRP demands are reasonable but not all of them are reasonable as well for a game. Some instances can be found below:

hostage sit, most of the time:
hostage taker forces someone to call 911 for no reason
police arrives
police sits on their ass for a couple min trying to figure out how to cop
someone goes in for basic negotiation attempts
taker makes a retarded demand like “Bring me a happy meal”
this goes on for a bit
some leo just rushes in and pops the taker
sometimes a hostage dies but oh well
Hostage situations (in terms of roleplay) - #41 by iiPentagramz

To criminals thats a reasonable demand because obvisously no LEO is going to give 10k FSD to a criminal (i mean its possible but like it happens rarely)
requesting thing like happy meal is like a rp that everyone can follow and play alone with.
Hostage situations (in terms of roleplay) - #42 by Philip_Forth

I would like to remind to you that Fed establishes roleplay guidelines. All questions in this case are to Fed. Fed basically prohibited us to meet any demands at all, therefore negotiations are no longer possible and are officially limited to
“Surrender”
“no”
“Ok we’re breaching then”
Hostage situations (in terms of roleplay) - #55 by Doktor710

ok the second thing i wanted to talk about fed law. it literally helps leos in every way possible such as not allowing certain things to be demanded in a hostage negotiation
Make firestone more fair for both criminals and legals - #25 by KAREEM2610

Above provided are some examples of people complaining about roleplay restrictions regarding negotiations are to harshly imposed by Fed. Note that these examples are ONLY from the Firestone Forums and not the Discord too. Of course, unreasonable demands like 100k or 10k real FSD cash should not be allowed, but a certain sum of money that is not too much nor too little should be allowed. 2000 real FSD probably would be a reasonable amount but I rather leave it up to the community to decide.

Another popular demand that was shut down by Fed was safe passage being provided to criminals. Please keep in mind that this is simply a game where people have fun and is not an attempt at hyperrealistic roleplay. So long as certain rules which are reasonable, are set like hostages MUST be released to be able to even obtain safe passage before the criminals get in their vehicle, or if FSP:ASU is online and on scene, I believe that safe passage is online. However, the FSP:ASU part should be left up to the individuals who are negotiating but I believe that a rule to enforce hostages not being able to be brought along during safe passage is necessary.

A final demand that may be popular is probably dancing or singing requests. I believe that dancing requests should remain prohibited as you probably would not see law enforcement actually dancing to adhere to a criminals demand but I believe that singing should be permitted. It is not entirely unreasonable unless it is a weird or unreasonable song that is being requested.

With this, I conclude my rant and more may probably come. Remember that this is a game for people who enjoy roleplaying to have fun and not a game to replicate hyperrealism. There is no fun with too many restrictions placed on both sides of the community and eventually, everything gets stale. So long as certain demands do not exceed department policy, I find that these changes I have suggested are pretty reasonable and this can be presented to the Founders for reconsideration of the rule with suggestions I have given to be put in place.

TL;DR: relax rules on negotiation demands since they are making negotiations dull and boring, to a certain extent like not breaking dept policy or being extremely unreasonable

Do you think criminals should be able to demand real FSD, so long as it is below a certain threshold, like 4000 FSD?
  • Yes, letting the negotiator to negotiate the specific amount
  • Yes, with a lower threshold, like 2000 FSD
  • No
0 voters
Do you think criminals should be able to demand safe passage, so long as hostages are left behind safely?
  • Yes, with the negotiator on scene calculating certain variables and having the final decision
  • Yes, but FSP:ASU being on scene should be regulated by FedLaw
  • No
0 voters
Do you think criminals should be able to demand officers to sing reasonable song requests?
  • Yes, allowing the negotiator on scene to make the final decision
  • No
0 voters
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taking the fun out of a game is why people get turned away. all the new groups starting up rn have no fun and this group’s fun is drastically drying out

change is needed and these 2018/2020 mindsets need to be changed. im not saying we remove all regulations and policies and have the game ungoverned, but people should be reminded it is a game and the entire purpose of firestone is to enjoy interacting with others and to imitate real roles in a friendly environment.

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support

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I think they should be able to demand it, but they ought to be followed and caught once the hostages are safe. Not sure if that’s what you meant with the ASU option

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mhm thats what i meant but with the prerequisite for asu being on scene is that so it also ensures we will not lose the suspects

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The same issues persisted when I was an LEO in 2018/2019. Hostage situations mostly ended with a hostage dead, a suspect dead, or cops dead. Usually, it was all those options together. All the options you listed above are great ideas and I hope to see them implemented. Now only do these options make it more balanced it also allows for fun to be added into the picture.

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personally, this doesn’t exactly affect me because i do realistic hostage sits. i often have backstories or realistic demands that allow rp n a good sit to play off. @TameHry was at my prom apts sit where i went off the story of where the hostage had lost my kid and out of revenge, i took him hostage. tame deescalated the sit and it played out really well. he made a deal where for the release of the hostage, he’d help look for my kid. in the end, i surrendered and the hostage sit ended very nicely. honesty, i think the hostage sit all goes down to how well hostage takers n leos rp.

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nah a lot of the time ppl don’t rp n tts whn it hpns. ive done so many n as long as the taker n leos negotiate well n crap it normally ends fine

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i agree w this. ppl forget tt this game does aim to imitate irl n ppl don’t make this realistic.

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i won’t lie, in the past (2020), leos hv actly given me actual fsd regardless of fedlaw bc rp was good. won’t name names tho one of them was env.

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Thing ive noticed a lot is the reason LEOs are so eager to breach is because they are constantly expecting an ambush, because that’s what criminals like to setup to get away- a cop could be putting his heart into a dialog with the taker then all of a sudden a shooter with a 74U who was hiding in a tree adjacent to the scene starts lightning him up and everyone else and its like “Why should i be putting so much effort into a negotiation if im just gonna get dropped from 300 studs away in a moment here”

Now i understand why this happens, crims know unless theyre a popular/known to rp person in the community, they’re getting no leeway in the situation, cops are understandably hesitant to negotiate things such as safe passage because either DOJ is gonna come screaming “AIDING AND ABETTING” or fed is gonna come screaming “UNREALISTIC” so it’s a sort of standoff of whos gonna do what first, are leo’s gonna breach first or are crims gonna ambush first?

another issue with money demands could be funding- not every LEO is willing to cough up their own FSD for a hostage sit.

in reality, there is no way to break 2018/2019 mindsets as long as have 2018/2019 rules

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I definitely do not agree with the exchange of FSD as a way of releasing a hostage. Most hostages are just the friends of the suspect or some random guy they find on the street, which in turn makes it incredibly easy for a crim to just start up a hostage sit and make their free money with minimal effort needed. I’d tend to maybe question the fact of only exchanging FSD if the person that is being captive is a high ranking government official as therefore it’d be a bit more challenging and require more effort.

We’ve just got to accept the fact that no matter what you do, the way you handle a hostage sit will always be the same. It’s like this for every game, altering what you can give up for demands literally changes nothing to the process of it.

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i agree, good sits can b done w/o it

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felt like putting this here

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Unfortunately blaad, the year of 2016 to 2020 was what made the game fun for everyone, where people could actually not cry and moan about the littlest things especially, these years were the prime time. New people in this community need to understand that firestone with the “2018/2020” mindset in most people actually knew what can be taken seriously and not, unfortunately people these years now, take this too serious and it doesn’t make it fun whatsoever. This new tone of the community has gotten all the OGs to disappear and leave, most of them came back to game to experience some actual fun, but it’s the new people and people overall now that have gotten soft and that’s what firestone is now, soft.

Going into firestone general and having the fun late nights that most people use to have actually brought a lot of the community together. No one got hurt at all and when people did, they were told to go to another voice channel or leave if they didn’t wanna hear nor be a part of it. The toughness, trolling and reality check everyone had back then was the real stuff and unfortunately even back then we all knew that the world wasn’t sunshine and rainbows, but most people now that join this community believe that’s how it is, but it’s really not because no one get’s a proper reality anymore.

So I’ll just say this, the reason why this game is dying slowly is because of number of reasons:

  1. Founder plays governor whenever he doesn’t like something, I get it, his game, but community always get’s no say, no community support.
  2. The amount of people that take this game too seriously and cry and moan about little things and make a big deal out everything.
  3. Founder micromanaging departments.
  4. Softly Discord Moderation team (cough cough jt)
  5. You cannot joke around anymore without taking everything offensive and saying there doing this and that when in reality, the persons reality hasn’t or actually isn’t gonna hit them because how they were raised.

There’s probably many more things I can list why this community is dying and it isn’t because of the “2018/2020” mindset at all. Overall, people need to grow up and realize this is a video game and cannot and shouldn’t be taken seriously whatsoever, it’s for fun and stuff is gonna get said and ur gonna get over it and move on. If you don’t like someone? Block them, simple as that.

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it’ll be up to the negotiator to decide so yeah

also good point, maybe fed can regulate that so if they know the taker and hostage are friends, u cant request for real money but this could be easily abused by leos

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also i believe if you fully read the post, it isn’t about changing how negotiations work, just more options that can be given for both sides to have more fun due to the restrictive nature of the current policies enforced by fed

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people are just gonna use hostage sits to farm money

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i think its a cool idea until the 15 rangers in plainclothes show up in a couple fbi explorers and breach immediately, shooting everyone inside and killing the 4 hostages

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holy SHIT support.

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