FSP, SCSO, it's time to talk

Alright, I think that this forum post is long overdue.

Recently, we have lost an SCSO Deputy to the BoR. As you all probably §BOR.XV, working in conjunction with A Bill to Prepare Employees, has resulted in violation after violation. For those of you who do not know, it states that all detainees must be informed of the charges against them. The general stigma surrounding this is that department heads have failed to notify their employees and have thus violated A Bill to Prepare Employees. I, however, do not think this is the case.

You see, the citizenship exam does not ever tell you to read the Constitution or the BoR. That’s common knowledge. Everyone should do it. Why is this any different for Law Enforcement? If we should be the FIRST people reading the BoR, why does it have to be law in departments? Teaching it in POST is still unreasonable, but at the very least, acceptable. I know that it has angered many the POST director

In accordance with §BOR.III of the State of Firestone, I hereby petition the State Government to amend A Bill to Prepare Employees (§I) so as to not blame department heads for the mistakes of their employees. Department heads already hold insane amounts of responsibility, and should not be spending their time babying employees into learning the bill of rights.

  • Support the amendment
  • No support.

0 voters

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if you enforce the law
you should at least know it lol

thats why i made it so it includes laws pertaining the your job,

let alone theres already officers DONE post, and im 100% sure they dont wanna go back

if you havent heard the many complaints of those officers who do not know the rights of both themselves and the citizens then im sorry to say i dont really trust in any leo department

you are a law enforcement agency keyword there is law, know it and ur fine to enforce

if you dont know something as simple as the bor or constitution and you say “everyone should do it” then its pretty obvious the ones who enforce said law should actually know it wouldnt it

citizens by themselves dont enforce any law of any sort

if a department head teaches people about bor, constituion and laws pretaining to their jobs, congrats, you can effectively do ur job better

if you dont wanna learn about it, amend it so that no one has to learn it at all then we’re gonna have a repeat of rainy

keep in mind teaching them the laws would make it so that department heads arent in fault for the fuck up of some dude who doesnt know the law cause he was never taught

if they are taught it, then the department head is in no way responsible for that employee’s fuck up

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It should be nothing but a PERSONAL responsibility to learn the BoR.

Department heads manage departments and administrative related affairs. They should expect that employees come in to the department with the required prior knowledge.

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Please give me an example to this as I don’t get exactly what you are trying to say. If anybody commits any crime from a department let’s say first degree murder off duty as an example , the department in question then needs to be fully investigated?? Please elaborate

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That’s the heart of my pitch. Department heads should not be working in the teaching of common sense.

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do you want me to cite every law and section of the constitution that every leo should know yet they dont. i fail to see why it would be a personal thing if it strictly pertain to ur job???

let alone theres officers rn who already did post which is why i made it a department thing, making changes to a training curriculum to include 10 minutes of reading isnt hard

if they expect it, at that point it isnt a personal thing anymore. its literally needed, and to my knowledge there isnt many specific questions on these applications regarding the bor or constitution.

thus they should be taught it. like i said before, if you enforce the law you should know it.

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Can you please give me an example am a bit lost

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ex. being hey he/she didnt read rights, guy/girl says he didnt know, dps checks

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It’s very personal. It’s like college. The professors don’t baby you. They give you the shit you need to work with, and if you don’t do what you have to do when it’s due, well then I’m sorry, you’ll fail. It’s the same thing here. Department heads work in conjunction with POST and are the professors and give you all the resources you need to patrol and enforce the law, but you need to understand that they’re not there to baby you.

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vote no because emote

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Additionally, I don’t mean personal in the context you imply. I mean it so that you need to know it well before you’re employed. Take your personal time to read the BoR. Not all of your career will be on the clock.

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As it is a commanding officer’s fault for misconduct by his soldiers it is the department head’s fault for the misconduct by his officers. Department Heads have clearly failed the educational requirements set forth by law. If they have indeed attempted to teach the BOR (which I doubt) they have done so poorly or have neglected to terminate incompetent staff. I have no mercy for these heads.

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doubt

i can tell u about a good friend of mine named dannyboylaw who dealt with officers like this who didnt know anything about the bor or constitution. same thing with rainy here who wasnt told about the bor/constitution, and it costed him his job. a lot of people commended rainy for being a good officer. yet you’re suggesting, hey he didnt know the bor or constitution which he couldve been saved from being fired/suspended by doing a 10 minute reading.

its such a simple thing to do yet no one really reads it, nor actually does it. why? cause no one enforces it. dont be a lazy and say “hey everyone already knows!” when clearly they dont. i can literally name many people who applied to fsp and scso and didnt know shit about the bor or constitution. yet they got accepted anyway???

this goes beyond any personal obligations here, it should be an actual obligation

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It’s hilarious too. Because the people, DOJ, and even the department Heads are fucked regardless. It doesn’t matter that the cops, who should know the BOR in its entirety, don’t know it and violate the people’s rights. This cult of personality, blue wall bullshit culture in our LEAs demonize anyone who calls out an officer’s fairly substantial fuck ups.

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Why lower the standards more than they already are? It is not difficult to learn basic laws and rights, let alone enforcing them. The basic principle of law enforcement is knowing the basics of law and criminal justice. That itself is the bare minimum before “realism” and “tactics”.

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you enforce law but you don’t know the bill of rights? what

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The point is that all department applicants should know the BoR BEFORE applying into a department.

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It’s the responsibility of POST to teach the basics of law enforcement. This includes the BOR.

Your department should build on this basic knowledge and fill in any gaps POST might have left.

Lastly, you should take it upon yourself to learn the basic rights of the citizens you swore to protect.

If these steps are followed you’ll never have a problem.

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This entire ordeal is tremendously overblown. First of all, BOR violation cases are still rare and only two have been convicted within recent months. On top of that, one of those who were convicted is now claiming he was framed and actually did state the reason for arrest and has successfully got his sentence retracted temporarily.

Previously, it has always been the responsibility of LEOs and Cadets to learn the law… this includes the BOR. Most have, and finding cases of people violating rights listed is rare. SCSO and FSP are expecting their employees to actually take the 10 minutes needed to read over the BOR.

The problem has been resolved. This outcry will remind those who haven’t to read the BOR. POST already teaches it, so the teaching problem has also been solved.

tl:dr: A few people have seen two (maybe one) BOR violation and assume the entire SCSO and FSP departments are full of incompetent kids. This is nothing but attention seeking from a few people.

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It takes more than mentioning it in T5 and not covering any of it during the exam to actually qualify it as teaching.

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