this exactly
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thank you, donāt remember seeing that announcement.
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just pathetic to take one situation and stereotype tactical teams on the constant claim āthey negotiate they donāt just run in guns blazeā you need to realize every situation varies, there is always different scenarios, people, and areas.
That being said, Iāve seen tactical teams ruin a scene multiple times. Whether it be IO, CRT, or SWATā¦ Sometimes itās off duty tactical team members too! (WarriorMasterKiller reference???)
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Canāt go into much but I can tell you now that negotiations ARE taught in SWAT and tactics for them are constantly discussed and redone accordingly.
Iām not sure if the full backstory has been presented on this, I will take Fizās word that SWAT just shot without trying to negotiate.
I think people sometimes struggle to understand why we choose a breach/takedown approach rather than negotiating. There are many policies in place regarding how negotiation on hostage sits must be done, quite a few of which are set by Fed Law, for example, if a single shot is fired on a scene, we are REQUIRED to breach without hesitation.
I myself try to understand where criminals are coming from regarding the issue, about 3 years ago I was in the same position, and I understand it takes ages to find a gun dealer. With this in mind if I am on a hostage situation I will always try and negotiate the taker out, however there is a point where we must say negotiations are failing. Criminals on bank sits typically come running out and rush cars and their hostages pull guns out their arse alongside them.
Another thing worth noting is we are extremely limited on what we can offer on hostage situations, again dictated by Fed Law, we cannot provide; a getaway, actual donated money or any form of free passage. These 3 demands are almost exclusively what is asked for, all other things are to stall us till the alarm stops.
The only thing we can actually offer that criminals sometimes take is reduced time in jail, which even then typically is an offer that is never accepted by criminals.
If you do get any recordings of tactical units breaching without trying to negotiate at all, you should forward it onto their direct supervisors/unit high command.
I personally feel there needs to be more incentive for crims to do RP sits than just bank robberies with fake hostages. Of course the points system was tried and failed, but I am sure there is something else we can try.
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I agree with this, many new criminals only do hostage situations & bank robberies nowadays, but when you really think about it, itās the only way to make money to do anything. If there was a passive method of income such as transportation of illegal goods for money, I feel like thereād fewer hostage situations overall and possibly more RPs by individuals who want to rp but do not have the funds to do so
at the moment, new criminals are essentially stuck with the crown victoria which is very hard to even attempt doing anything due to the āpitā system being OP. If there was some sort of transportation of illegal goods job for the criminal side, I feel like itād give new criminals something to do other than ram
this might reduce the number of bank robberies and the number of individuals that rush out? thatās my take on it
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I personally think there needs to be more for criminals (or anyone on civ team) to do, departments are getting updates all around, most notably was DHS getting an entire new fleet. I feel that some of this time could be put into other things for crims to do, I made a suggestion about a hit system in v2 where you go to a dealer and they give you a contract to kill someone, and you get money for doing it, however other things can be added to get you money like maybe as @Clonemep famously suggests, fishing, catching fish and selling them to fishermen at the docks. Maybe some stuff could also be done with the AI peds env is working on, there are a lot of possibilities.
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the thing is with these updates, they arenāt benefiting the entire community with tools for roleplays or any enjoyment for the majority of the community, its mostly cosmetic for departments which arenāt necessarily neededā¦
the many suggestions for different things would be great, things like fishing would reduce overall crimes that occur 24/7 and allow individuals to make money without breaking every law in the book
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its hard to roleplay if the laws are so restrictive no cap.
its all about how you have to perform, what to say, what you canāt say, what youāre allowed to do, what you arenāt allowed to do.
firestone isnāt roleplay anymore because its, ālawyer up.ā āname and badge.ā āpoidā, etc etc. you canāt do jack shit anymore without having the LITTLEST of thing ruin your career, as an LEO or in any position.
the laws are heavily against roleplay, iām sorry. but they just are.
its literally 24/7 the threatening of lawyers, courts, or ājobgone.ā
i havenāt seen a lot of roleplay my 4 months back in other than honest to god threatening lawyers, courts, and having your career ruined. that is all it is.
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its safe to say scfd/medical units are one of the only roleplaying aspects in the group
and businesses
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honestly, LEOs in firestone have it easier on themselves compared to other groups (atleast from my experience as one in FS & other ro-states). I donāt blame employers either because of employment laws, you cannot discipline someone unless you have POID from name showing (which individuals can just hide name & then proceed to run away) and if you do end up disciplining them, itās probably going to end up in court which the secretary/colonel/director/sheriff etc. is going to have to deal with
Iāve seen LEOs/department employees get away with so much shit that itās actually hilarious at this point
things like āuse of forceā thatās taught in POST isnāt enforced, mfs can shoot you if you SLIGHTLY hit them by accident lol
they really are, I donāt have any particular laws in my head right now but there are many times where RPās wont work out due to laws
edit: im pretty sure its illegal to call 911 for an RP to report a made-up āburglaryā in your home
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whats this post about
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I will take Fizās word that SWAT just shot without trying to negotiate.
Just FYI it wasnāt SWAT that shot
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Here is an example of where I persevered with negotiations, I didnāt have to, and technically speaking I shouldnāt have, considering all the hostages were handed over, and the fact I was even getting shouted at over the radio to breach and kill them, however I chose to keep negotiating and successfully get them out.
Unfortunately nowadays this is a rare case, at the end you can see they missed out on a lot of money, all most criminals want on bank sits is to run out and get to res to change the money as fast as they can. I feel criminals also have a part to play in āroleplayā when it comes to situations, we are all playing to have fun after all.
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Thatās good to know, thanks for alerting me to this. I was under the assumption that it wasnāt taught, that may have just been me lacking in knowledge somewhere or me hearing about it.
I agree that the police vehicles are by far the most OP thing in-game (I think the SRT is the only vehicle that is faster than police vehicles) and the fact we have pit makes it even easier for the police during pursuits. As an LEO myself I sometimes wish we could disable PIT because going pattern 3 in pursuit and desyncing the suspect is an easy way to end a pursuit. I personally enjoy pursuits as an officer because the driving portion requires skill,
Agreed, I think we are pretty far behind on the criminal scale, while I donāt entirely agree with things like DHS fleet and FBI fleet when criminals havenāt seen an update since the light of day.
While āuse of forceā is taught in POST, the majority of the time we have crazy use of force in laws. Trespassing in DOC waters is lethal force, even if the subject is unarmed, in my book thatās stupid. But in terms of VA, Iām pretty sure officers shoot because they expect that 90% of the time they are getting hit by a car its on purpose (by scene rammers etc).
This is a good example of negotiations and how they can end a situation that could have been bloody, peacefully.
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As I said contradictory to what somebody else said, I believe negotiations are meant to resolve the situation peacefully, and this is a perfect example of such. good job 
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np, i remember the announcement being made but forgot if it stated game mods can do anything about it. best way to get envs attention is through game mods (if it is related to us) so if you record it send to me and i can go further with it
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fbi moment
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kill kill kill
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