What Is a Department?

This is a “petition” to congress and the courts.

Disclaimer: I am not a legal expert and some of my information may be wrong, but my point still stands. Feel free to correct me with links to information I am missing.


What is a department? We do not know! There are not DETAILED laws establishing and defining each department. This creates many problems. I have asked former Governor OVG to create such a law. He said he would, but we never got it for whatever reason. I am now asking congress and the courts to fulfill this grey area. We know that an online roleplay state will not be able to create such detailed and correct “laws” which a real world government would. There are a myriad of differences between a real world and game state. Things just are not able to match one to one. For these reasons, it is up the the developers and administrators of the group to fill the empty gaps between laws and to implement laws created by the government. With that being said, it is also the group owners’ discretion rather or not to do so and how do it – this is simply how running a group works. (Starting debates against the group admins in the replies will result in a punishment to your forums account!) Below I will list some examples which demonstrate a need for legal clarification. At the bottom, I will write a conclusion and summarize my plea to officials.


National Guard: Special Forces
There is no legal definition nor establishment of this. Firestone National Guard staff have created a “subdivision” called Special Forces. These guys perform tactual operations, undercover work, and high profile encounters with criminals. They have previously used (abused) the tools (handcuffs, citation book) specifically created for Military Police. They have also engaged in pursuits in civilian vehicles (especially a red SRT). They ask us developers all the time for a vehicle to do their work in, but we will not create it for this reason. What is SF? Is this illegal? Do they exist? Does NG have the power to do this? Is NG a (voluntary, non-POST) law enforcement group? The developers have denied the existence of SF because we do not think these operations are not under the scope of National Guard. Their duties overlap several other legitimate departments – SCSO SWAT, DHS undercovers, and FSP pursuits.


Homeland Security: Intelligence Office / Crisis Response Team / Secret Service
Are these legal subdivisions within the power of DHS? IO is their undercover team. CRT is their special tactical team. SS is their government protection/escort team. It may seem very simple and clear what DHS should be able to do, but it’s a thick line. Intelligence office has used civilian cars to spy on criminal and citizens. Is this legal? The developers choose not to recognize CRT, so that it does not overlap SCSO SWAT. Having three special subs is just too much. We want to keep the cool factor balanced and not make one department too OP. We also give DHS slightly more undercover cars as well as special escort vehicles because believe that these duties are very fitting to DHS.


Other Subdivisions
Other subdivisions that could use some clarification are Coast Guard, SWAT, ASU, and Search & Rescue. Similar situations can and will occur in other departments and subdivisions. Of course these divisions will depend on development, and we will offer equal opportunities for departments to have subs.


Hypothetical Scenarios
Under the current law (to my understanding), the following is possible:

  • SCFD can establish a fire code enforcement sub to arrest and fine those who cause a fire hazard.
  • DOH can use emergency vehicles to respond to medical emergencies.
  • FSP can can use police helicopters as an air ambulance (it happened).
  • Coast Guard can become a water fire/rescue service.
  • FBI or DPS can be undercover spies or respond to emergencies like police.
  • NG humbees can engage in traffic stops within their given jurisdiction.

What is preventing these things from happening? Developers and group admins!


Summary (TL;DR)
We need definitive laws and court rulings defining duties and boundaries of each department. We also need clarification on which subdivisions are official, and which are simply an internal rank. Special Forces are trying to be all LEO departments in one, when they are not even law enforcement officers. Departments are starting to get carried away with their powers, just trying to be the coolest kids in town.

UPDATE: I recommend leaving it up to the group developers/owners (as it is now). However, an official legal statement saying this will help prevent departments from getting too upset about not getting something cool. This whole idea may be too intricate and complex for a law or simple court ruling.

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good answer

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Some departments are defined more by other laws like DOA, DOS, etc. with bills that define them more.

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That law says:
“Firestone National Guard (https://www.roblox.com/Groups/group.aspx?gid=2803372) are Military personnel”

is SF considered military personnel?

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:dab:

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Interesting…

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ok updated to include court rulings in addition to laws

because you know courts define/interpret laws which is kinda a big question here

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I can’t say but there is a rolerain bill defining MP and NG and CG but I don’t know about SF.

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every department and sub-division is defined.

you just need to ask each member of that sub-division for it.

if your asking for an insanely defined law with every department defined and all of their duties i highly suggest you dont do that

look at the current criminal code - its absolute shit but it tried to compile so many things and it did about 40% of it right. its going to require a massive effort from our legislators to close every loophole while accurately defining everyone. they get this wrong? congrats, your sub-division is fucked for another 2 weeks until a bill is signed.

look at the county gov abolishment - we all though it was good but then we lost scso and scfd for like 3 hours

this is going to distract congress for WAYY too long. bring it up with a specific legislator if your going to do this, you shouldnt have a massive team working on this.

all in all (tl;dr) i reccomend you dont build a big bill that will likely have massive loopholes/not enough and will require too much effort for a perfect bill to be crafted in a reasonable time while accomplishing goals congress wants to accomplish.

feel free to pick my argument apart.

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The question is what happens if that specific division/sub-divison isn’t defined?

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is the traffic division in SCSO defined

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they dont exist.

if a division/sub-division isn’t defined, your just a regular member of the grup.

if a department isn’t defined (lol this would never happen) you arent employed

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LOL so your telling me SF and IO arent techniclly divisions at all? oooof

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FNG:SF is Military Personnel, unlike its counterpart Military Police (Base Security) and Coast Guard (Water Police) which in my opinion is both Military Personnel & Law Enforcement. Special Forces was created for the purpose of Recon and Tactical Operations, in the sense of the term.

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rip ALL subs including SWAT, SF, ASU, S&R, CG, and the load of DHS ones

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LOL OOF

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they’re defined.

all of them are defined.

you just gotta search.

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to add on to what i said in my original post:

just ask someone in that division where they get their legal powers to operate from

(now are most sub-divisions fucked because of this new criminal code? absolutely. 99 out of 100 times they can’t enforce laws. thats why its being repealed.)

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