The lack of in game trials are because the judiciary had been in shambles for a year and it’s pretty hard to transition all the BCAs back… not to mention the complete lack of BCAs to support it
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All important cases are announced in the FS discord, they don’t need to announce that carlosmiguel2007 got his record expunged or that MythicalFreedom has been convicted of murder for the umpteenth time. If you want to get the word out about every case that goes on before the courts, maybe use your news network and hire a court reporter.
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I used to report on court cases when I could actually observe them, and streamed them there’s still clips on my twitch from when I was actually able to. The fact of the matter is, there’s no PR in the courts at all. “All Important cases are announce in the FS discord” in the last 6 months how many is that? Not many at all, there’s no room for people to observe an in a scheduled manner. There’s almost no in game part of the job now as well, with that how do you expect to attract new people.
At the end of the day, you can disregard what I’m saying all you’d like but the state of things for the last however long show’s something needs to change.
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Sorry the game sucks, we’ll get right on fixing that.
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Most people in the community are here to play a game, and unfortunately the game portion of the Courts has long been a memory due to the change in procedure, and how things are handled. The game doesn’t suck, the changes that have come over the last few years ending the “GAME” part of these jobs i’d say is a major factor.
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Just to add on, it’s not something that’s just happening in the courts either, so don’t think I’m specifically saying them. I referenced stuff being pushed through congress earlier as well that I think likely will have the same effect and more due to the nature of being able to pass laws with 1-3 voters.
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We shouldn’t be watering down the roleplay in order to entertain spectators. Myself, as well as probably every other attorney practices here because we enjoy the whole mock trial experience. Without procedure, it just becomes a kangaroo court and diminishes any resemblance of an “authentic” experience. We already cut enough corners as is, and doing away with necessary procedure would serve to harm all parties involved.
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You’re hard pressed to call talking back and fourth randomly through a 2-5 month+ period a real mock trial experience.
I can go click on any case in the court discord that’s not an expungement and nearly all of it regardless the judge is this. I don’t know why we’re even pretending.
Don’t even need to link the supreme court cases some of which have lasted a year.
If this is the full on Court Mock Trial experience, then I’m not surprised it’s hard to fill the bench, and it will continue to be hard.
I literally clicked on random cases for each of those screenshots and could provide more. I’m sure lawyers love waiting 2-5 months to hear anything as well as I’m sure normal citizens are so elated to get involved in anything regarding the courts when they sit and think to have something processed it is likely to take half a year. Idk, at the end of the day I’m not a judge, a lawyer, or in the Judicial section of the community, but requirements can be met without having cases last so long.
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Sadly there is a million different reasons why a case is dragged out for months, and in most instances it would be unfair to hold anyone personally responsible for the delay of a case. As there is little that can be done in forcing participation, I see no feasible way to speed up the process without compromising the integrity and fairness of the current system.
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just find cases where ppl sued the chief justice on westlaw lmao
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ah yes typical chris using US logic
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Doing all cases in-game is physically impossible. Those without a Discord account or who wish to do their hearing or trial in-game are RESPECTED. I’ve had a few record expungement petitioners whose hearings were in-game. Whenever I subpoena a person I try to always contact them on Roblox as well, doesn’t always work out though. As for PR, I must say it would be very interesting if someone did court reporting of sorts… but shouldn’t that be more the role of media outlets? Not sure how we, an impartial branch, should conduct public relations.
Having to schedule a week in advance for every single trial isn’t easy, especially considering exams, LOAs, and so much more. While I will try to continue scheduling for in-game trials myself, I’m currently largely preoccupied with real life organization. To the contrary of what you said, Discord is much more accessible in this sense. It (1) removes the need to rearrange your real life schedule, (2) there is no potential for bias on the basis of your in-game appearance, (3) you can view a clear transcript and record of all cases, and (4) it is more thorough than in-game processes.
But the argument to be made is that there has to be a balance between what is fair and what is fun for all those involved. That’s why choosing suitable cases for in-game trials is important and should be prioritized.
While District cases do take long (longer than in-game trials would take), that aside, cases are being handled in a proper and accurate manner as far as I know.
Procedure has nothing to do with in-game trials. In fact, the GRP makes in-game trials easier and more fluid. Yes, you are stating an obvious fact, that the game portion of the Courts hasn’t been all too popular recently. I believe most judges are attempting to fix this. That’s all that can be said.
I don’t know what you’re on about if I’m going to be honest. If you’re arguing that procedures should stay: yes, they should. But in-game trials are UNDOUBTEDLY more entertaining for all those involved. Discord is literally the definition of watering down the roleplay. It makes everything seem practically meaningless and ever so boring. Discord trials are the pinnacle of bureaucracy and boredom. Sometimes they are necessary, sometimes they are not.
Supreme Court cases have nothing to do with in-game vs Discord, they will nearly always be on Discord. Supreme Court issues are due to an array of problems facing us collectively over the past year or so – doesn’t matter whose fault that is.
I personally agree. Participants in Discord trials are reluctant to do anything with haste AND one big thing which is ignored is that the standard for lawyers in the State is substantially lower because you can pretty much spend multiple days preparing a response to a simple objection. I’m not sure how good current attorneys would be in-game… no offense.
Finding a balance between fairness and (a) speed and (b) entertainment is important in the upcoming months. Cases which in their nature are difficult to pursue in-game (due to Roblox censoring or a vast array of physical exhibits) should remain on Discord. Other matters however (after arraignment) should be pursued in-game. In-game trials do not have to lose any integrity if all those involved follow the procedures and do their best, and they are statistically much faster and efficient. It also assists in challenging lawyers.
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I’d also like to note the response to the poll I posted.
As you can see, when it comes to aspiring attorneys the difficulty of law in Firestone is what confuses them at most. I just want to say to them that in reality, ‘FS law’ is way blown out of proportion. Trust me, it’s written by 12-year olds, it’s really not that advanced but what the Judiciary makes of it is quite advanced. For these majority of people, the law school should help them tremendously which is why I still support the furtherance thereof.
The minority of people said that they either don’t know the bar or don’t know where to find it so that is a good thing on BLEE’s side.
And quite a few people also voted that they simply don’t want to be associated with the legal community. Due to the fact that this is only 18/16% of the votes, I believe these people are probably just inherently uninterested in law which is completely fine. However, more entertainment in the Judiciary and with lawyers could lower this number a bit.
As for becoming a judge, you can easily tell that no one really wants to become a judge. What worries me most is the amount of people who voted that the Judiciary doesn’t take them seriously for judgeship. Now, if you don’t have a bar, you shouldn’t even try to become a judge, but otherwise I think anyone has the ability to become a judge so be sure to continue if you’re like that. But as for the general interest in becoming one, eh, maybe people just dont like it or maybe we don’t do enough in-game stuff to appease people. I dont know.
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Well it’s not the fact it happened, it’s the fact it was:
A. Left to the wind, no further action was properly taken regarding Bailiffs which if I may remind you is the prerogative of Congress to actually create and pass legislation to acknowledge them.
B. It was a poorly written amendment which as we’ve discussed allows for the District Court to legitimately never require any Judge to operate which would directly put a strain on the Associate Justices.
@ElloNT @Innovativemind @Ogax @thekerbal
The courts used to be quite interesting to watch and be involved in, even with announcements for expungement hearings you could see a large turnout from people just coming to see how they’d play out. It was for entertainment but it at least meant people were there to actually see it operate. The issue with PR is because of the Courts impartial nature, now you could quite easily take an impartial nature to PR by just stating active cases and noting any key developments for it, or as was suggested look into court reporters.
I’m sure FBC is willing to have set Court reporters who can write a release every week-ish on Court activity. It means it’s separate to the Court and allows the public to access summaries for cases they might otherwise never look into personally. This fits directly into the comments made regarding a Law School and filling BCAs.
Again, we cannot just change the who judiciary overnight to make it more appealing, but we should look to see what the appeals are for people to become lawyers and Justices irl. It might just come in a small salary boost in County, or the ability to join a legal practice, whatever it may be could also help in bolstering numbers.
This is something I want to briefly touch on. This is the attitude that causes more people to not want to deal with the courts. It’s the instant sarcastic responses and tones to people making valid comments. By god if the courts had more people return to the physical courthouse I can assure you more people would turn out to see events, and the introduction of a “Courts-Announcements” channel in the FS Main discord could also help with regard to bringing people to it.
I don’t believe we should ask for every single case to be done in-game, but it should be taken as the priority route. The discord method was brought up by Aidan/Insertfailure as a secondary measure if neither party could meet at a reasonable time at the courthouse. This has now gone completely off what it was intended to be. It’s now become the nearly sole method for cases to be heard, but we must acknowledge the work of ElloNT for attempting to use the courthouse more often. Atop this, as you’ve seen from those screenshots provided by Innovative, discord trials seem to be less professional with random facts or memes shoved in when there’s no need.
Again, don’t have to completely rearrange your life for this. If you start a case in a courthouse session but need to break it because you have commitments that is extremely valid, and you can continue it in discord. You also mention viewing a clear transcript, I’m sure if you guys have moderation power in the courthouse you can bring up :chatlogs and read, or ask to get proper court reporters to take from that log and write down all relevant parts to be put into the discord channel for the trial.
I know we’ve definitely diverted from the main point of this but properly honed in on the issues plaguing the Judiciary which is the discussion I did want to start, but this is exactly what I mean with becoming a Judge/Attorney in FS. We can’t be sure of every reason for why they don’t want to, and we may never know why they don’t want to be a Judge, but you guys can still try to limit those reasons.
I just also want to say:
This leads back into the first part of your poll, how many of those people fit into the “I want to become bar certified but it’s too difficult”? Because that looks to be the biggest issue plaguing it all. Now when they say “too difficult” it may be the process, or the content, or any number of things so now we must actually talk to those people and identify what they mean. If we want to solve the issue of decreasing numbers of BCAs and Judges well look no further than the entry into this legal world.
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Half the problem I have is the claiming that the judiciary cant operate in game. As it can and did, this argument that discord is keeping things impartial and fair. How? What about it is impartial and fair? To me citizens especially in a game SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO A FAIR AND SPEEDY TRIAL. 5 Months and more for a game trial is outrageous and you’re not going to convince me otherwise. When cases in FS for petty crime take longer then some real life cases for similar things I’m hard press to act like things are ok.
The problem I have with saying “We cant change the judiciary overnight” No one had a problem with changing it to make it so that nothing was done in game anymore. So where does change start? Or do we sit here leaving expungements as basically the only thing getting done whilst other cases are sitting here for 3months to a year with no results. I wish 3 months was the normal time it was taking as well, but if it’s not an expungement you’re looking at 5months to a year.
If nothing is being finalized beyond expungements and on a rare occasion normal cases then idk how it can be argued the courts are even operating properly. It’s not even debatable what’s being handled anyone can check out the transcripts whether you’re a casual citizen or a lawyer doesn’t matter.
Imagine if the Governor every time he got legislation and the debate finished and so fourth took 5+ months to sign legislation. To me this is the same thing in situations like the one where the people have simply been awaiting a verdict to an already finished trial for over 2 months.
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The thoroughness and the immense chance for both parties to prepare and argue every small matter of their case is impartial and fair. Whether or not that outweighs the fairness of a speedy trial is the discussion.
False. The move to Discord was slow and many members of the court had their complaints. It didn’t happen in 1 day.
I believe most members of the Judiciary are currently moving towards in-game trials to fix this issue. Cases which have already begun trial cannot be schedule for in-game due to complications, and some trials inherently still need to be on Discord, but otherwise in-game should be the way to go. My recent cases I’ve had to move to Discord trial as I currently have exams, although I possibly regret doing so as scheduling the cases for February would probably be more efficient than doing it on Discord.
The speed of the courts is the only real issue. It’s a big issue, sure, but we aren’t plagued with half-assed decisions and poor precedent setting as was the case 3 years ago. Which one outweighs the other, don’t ask me
over 2 months…?
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